Curse

gamecube187 · Jul 22, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

/partially signed
There should be a block, but as someone mentioned earlier, it should be quest (or maybe mission) related. BUT, to keep it so that you still have to earn it, you should have to redo the quests (or maybe mission) after so long (like maybe after a week it resets and you have to do it again?). That way, not everyone would have access, because you would have to redo quests (or maybe mission) after so long to keep you access, and not everyone would want to redo something over and over just to be able to go to that area. That way, you don't have the problem of people in pvp unlocking something for the people in pve, when teh pvp people might never go there, and the pve people might never do the thing that is accually needed to unlock that area. You also don't have the problem of people in a single guild/alliance faction farming their buts off and never going to the place they work so hard to keep, while everyone else and their mom gets to go to that place and not have to do anything but give a little gold. With this way, to be able to go to that place you would accually HAVE to do something yourself to go to that place instead of relying on others to get access for them or just paying a little gold.

SirNutWad · Jul 22, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

/not signed

This is because it's the only thing I do in the game. Thats the only thing I find fun in the game other than the fact that I like the stories to the game ^.^. Oh, but I wouldn't mind something like Sorrow's Furance in Nightfall.

Tark Alkerk · Jul 22, 2006, 08:04 AM // 08:04

/not signed

half the enjoyment of halls in winning favour for your country.

logan90 · Jul 22, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

/partially signed

I believe that future chapters shouldnt have this restriction on parts as they are an addition to the restriction of the UW/FoW. The UW/FoW restriction takes place in both Prophecies and Factions and most likely will do in Nightfall. That means that Factions is both restricted by favor and alliances but it should only have the FoW/UW access restricted, if at all. Or if there are places that are blocked in Nightfall then there should be a way to unblock it yourself like by completing the game, rather than having your access decided by someone else.

Takonic · Jul 22, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

/signed

i totally agree with the whole favour system...i dont mind it, but FoW/UW should be accessable at all times, for example sometimes i would want to go after helping a buncha guildies and they arent busy in their evening to maybe a run thru FoW/UW to "experience something new" but to get caught in we not having favour is not nice

Elite missions, oh boy, sure ppl should be rewarded for the hard grinding they do to access such cool areas for the game...BUT , what about the everyday people like me and my guildies who once in a blue moon want to go there and give it a try? sure its elite and hard...but i really dont approve of going down there looking for a taxi, hell if i last there for 5 min with henchies i'd be happy...its just not fair for regular players having to find taxies JUST to go there.....i mean, i love my guild, all my best buddies are in it, and im not gonna leave them behind to join a guild part of a elite alliance to hold a town or a guild with heavy grinders....i dont think imma ever try a elite mission....or even get a chance with that...GG

Freedom Cry · Jul 22, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

/partialy signed

it can't just be free. then it just becomes another area and there's nothing special about it. here follows my idea:

after one ascends (or equivalant) there is an area off of an out of the way town (somthing like the maguma stande) and in that area you can take a renewable quest (pioneered in factions anyone remember ff??) that will open a closed portal (like we've seen in factions) but add a group of "Portal Guardians" (probably 3 lev 28's or 5 lev 24's) that rush out of the newly opened portal, close it, and defend it (probably in a mini cut-scene). after a group defeats these guardians the portal opens and they can waltz inside!

feel free to comment

Lady Lozza · Jul 22, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

/not signed
Restricted areas should be something you have to work for, one way or another. I've expressed my opinions on this matter often enough.

To all those US players complaining EU always has favour, you are WRONG. NA and EU servers actually share favour roughly 50/50, the problem is that NA having favour simply doesn't correspond with the times you normally game. Just like EU having favour doesn't normally coincide with the times that I normally play. Quit complaining.

Cjlr · Jul 22, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

To all those US players complaining EU always has favour, you are WRONG. NA and EU servers actually share favour roughly 50/50, the problem is that NA having favour simply doesn't correspond with the times you normally game. Just like EU having favour doesn't normally coincide with the times that I normally play. Quit complaining.

But, how often does anyone on the three Asian servers get to visit UW/FoW? Korea does have favour once in a while but I've never seen Japan or Taiwan hold Halls.

The way the favour system is implemented, it isn't really about enjoying what you've earned at all. Most people visiting UW/FoW are not the people who fought for it. Most people who play HA are not the ones who visit the areas they unlock. I'm far too lazy to confirm this first-hand (not to mention the flames I'd get if I started asking people) but since other people have said as much, why not?

With the introduction of ferrying, the Elite Missions in Factions are really nothing of the sort. When you get into Urgoz's or The Deep, odds are you didn't have to do anything to get there. And that's good. It is much, much more fun to be able to do things how and when you want.

Stockholm · Jul 22, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kijik Oni Hanryuu

uh no thanks, I like working for rewards, not getting them handed to me.

Favor you cant work to get unless you are in to PvP, has nothing to do with PvE.
Elit missions idea was good but Implementation was teribble(yes like my spelling)

/signed

Lady Lozza · Jul 22, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

I agree that the favour system isn't perfect. But what have people been suggesting? A pve map which will basically only encourage cookie cutter builds, and we have enough of that at the moment without adding to it.

Asian countires rarely have favour, true. Japan HAS indeed had favour, not too sure about Taiwan. I won't speculated on how many players they have on their servers, how many want FoW, etc. It isn't helpful.

Perhaps I'm biased. I started playing in ToPK because EU never had favour. And we fought and we fought, and it took us so long to be able to win HoH, and we didn't manage to hold. But it doesn't require you to hold to win favour, it only requires that your district keep winning. Slowly EU teams caught on and would gang up on NA teams when needed, in the HoH battles. The number of times we were called cheats for this tactic was amazing.

The crux of the matter is that EU complained, and the rest of you told us to go win favour, we did that, now you complain that we win it too often. The favour split is more or less proportional to the number of teams that play in HA. How often do Japan/Taiwan/Korea win halls? About the same as the number of times HA players actually play against them. Fewer teams in HA = less chance to win favour. I've never had a problem with this concept.

A lot of pve players say, I want to do what I want, when I want, but UW, FoW wouldn't be the challenge or the fun that they still are today if we had access to them 24-7. Instead cookie cutter builds would be even more evident and no one outside these "uber builds", or even NEW to such team models, would ever be able to get a team.

Look what happened to ToPK pve map. 99% of the teams there are b/p, and now that b/p has been around for so long those who are new to the build simply don't get a chance in most teams. The first sign of "checking" your build with your team and you get kicked.

As a member of the alliance currently holding HzH, I ferry for free NOT because I think all players should have access, but because I think that the players who wish to try the map should have a variety of players to choose from. Nonetheless I am finding more and more that players in elite missions are falling into the same cookie-cutter patterns. Certainly, Anet will be giving open access to these missions at some stage in the future, but I've a feeling that in the future it isn't going to be worth the time of day to join a cookie cutrer team to complete either of these missions.

Yes the system isn't perfect, yes we could do with some more challenging pve areas, but opening UW/FoW is NOT the answer.

Sab · Jul 22, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

A lot of pve players say, I want to do what I want, when I want, but UW, FoW wouldn't be the challenge or the fun that they still are today if we had access to them 24-7. Instead cookie cutter builds would be even more evident and no one outside these "uber builds", or even NEW to such team models, would ever be able to get a team.

Look what happened to ToPK pve map. 99% of the teams there are b/p, and now that b/p has been around for so long those who are new to the build simply don't get a chance in most teams. The first sign of "checking" your build with your team and you get kicked.

The reason you see gimmicky builds in open areas like ToPK, and balanced builds in restricted areas like UW and FoW has little to do with their relative open-ness and more to do with the way they're designed.

Intended or not, ToPK is extremely difficult with a balanced PUG, and a breeze with a B/P build, which is why B/P builds are ubiquitous. Change the way the levels are designed, add different mobs (I think there is a whopping total of around six different monsters in the entire mission), and B/P will disappear. A balanced team will find that the mobs simply rip through their builds. It's next to impossible to form a balanced PUG that has the coordination to complete ToPK. B/P, on the other hand, requires little more than C-Space.

As for FoW/UW, though I haven't played gimmicky builds there before, I get the feeling that a balanced group would simply work better in such environments, due to the variety of enemies and the inflexibility of builds such as B/P, hence there aren't as many gimmicky builds in those areas.

Lady Lozza · Jul 22, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Lol, actually I b/p in FoW. It really is the easiest build I've played there. I've also been a part of a 5 man team, once again, if you know what you are doing there isn't much difficulty involved.

55ing, dual farming in UW, sure it isn't doing the quests, but let's be honest, how many people SERIOUSLY want it free and open to all for the quests?

How did people come up with these builds? Time. They perfected them with TIME. Given time, UW/FoW being open for all 24-7, people WILL come up with a build to do X quest or X number of quests, and that WILL become the standard for 90% of the teams going to either of these places. In all honesty it's bad enough as it is already, and you want to make it worse?

ToPK is NOT a one off, it is the trend. SF, Fire Islands, even many mission areas have all followed exactly the same trend.

Vahn Roi · Jul 22, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

If you are not pleased with the fact that Europe seems to have the favor for 23 hours of the 24 day, then maybe you yourself should get down to HA and win the favor for your country.

natuxatu · Jul 22, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I think the point is to still have favor and the elite mission in factions.. just nothing in addition to those in Nightfall to which I agree. Instead more interesting sort of elite places like SF would be my personal choice.

/signed (not that it'll make a difference since it's pretty much on it's way.)

stueyman2099 · Jul 22, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

/signed

I'd be more interested in an area that can be accessed more easily, but is retardedly hard to complete.

Enix · Jul 22, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

/signed

I think winning halls to get favor just makes PvE players (yes there are plenty of PvE only players) bored with the game. It was an interesting idea, like many ideas in GW are, but it just dosent pan out. Just like the AB line - cool idea, but pretty pointless when it comes down to it.

Sab · Jul 22, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Lol, actually I b/p in FoW. It really is the easiest build I've played there. I've also been a part of a 5 man team, once again, if you know what you are doing there isn't much difficulty involved.

55ing, dual farming in UW, sure it isn't doing the quests, but let's be honest, how many people SERIOUSLY want it free and open to all for the quests?

How did people come up with these builds? Time. They perfected them with TIME. Given time, UW/FoW being open for all 24-7, people WILL come up with a build to do X quest or X number of quests, and that WILL become the standard for 90% of the teams going to either of these places. In all honesty it's bad enough as it is already, and you want to make it worse?

ToPK is NOT a one off, it is the trend. SF, Fire Islands, even many mission areas have all followed exactly the same trend.

You B/P in FoW, and yet you say that it's "bad enough already", referring to the amount of gimmick builds present. Are you not contributing to the problem? Contradictions aside, what exactly is the problem with gimmick builds? You can choose to play them, or you can choose to play balanced - it's up to you. There's nothing stopping you from forming your own group with your own build.

On a different note, and this is the main point I wanted to make, it is the design of the various high-end areas which encourage gimmicky builds. If you consider gimmicks a problem, don't blame it on the fact that various areas are open for all, but instead, blame it on the enemies' builds, the terrain of the missions, the mechanics on which the gimmick runs, and any other factor which can lead to gimmicky builds.

shadowvulcan · Jul 22, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

it would be pretty silly if favor and elite missions werent restricted, honestly it balnces things out,if u wanna get the good pve areas u gotta do pvp and work for it, it's what makes the game fun, and we'll see what happens in nightfall

Lady Lozza · Jul 23, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuxA

You B/P in FoW, and yet you say that it's "bad enough already", referring to the amount of gimmick builds present. Are you not contributing to the problem? Contradictions aside, what exactly is the problem with gimmick builds? You can choose to play them, or you can choose to play balanced - it's up to you. There's nothing stopping you from forming your own group with your own build.

I see this often enough. Little Freddie comes along and has just discovered ToA. He wants to try out these "new" realms because he has yet to see them. He gets invited into a team and honestly admits that he has never been there before and promptly gets kicked.
We all know that pugs aren't newbie friendly, but the extent to which I've seen new players being abused in this manner is shocking. Yes, it is an "elite" area, but that doens't give OTHER players the right to play doorman. Sure, you don't want a new person in your team, they might just stuff it up, but the first time I went I ended up on a TS channel with my team explaining what needed to be done. After a rather graphic demonstration of an Aatax taking down a monk in one hit, I certainly got the message.

Let's face the facts, 90% of the people who hover around ToA are there for farming purposes. Farming = gimmick build. I farm. I b/p and I 55. When you enter one of these teams your understanding is that you are there for ectos and shards, period. You don't do a full run, even though you are missing out on some possible ectos/shards from doing so. Why? Well in some cases the gimmick build doesn't cater for it, in others you just want the farming run to be quick.

So 90% of people don't want to do quests. Ok, fair enough, farming is cool. My point is that along comes someone who wants to do quests, they can't go with the guild for whatever reason. They are there to explore, get XP, whatever. There is a team going in advertising to do x quest or x number of quests, but they can't possibly take a mesmer, their gimmick build specifies a certain team and mesmer isn't in that. The problem is that now we have 90% gimmick/farming builds and 10% gimmick/I can't think for myself builds.

ToPK was a poor example because it primarily a farming ground, there are no quests involved. However places like SF, the highend missions in the Ring of Fire, etc have all gone the SAME way. If you are there for farming you use gimmick build X, if you are there for questing/missions, you use gimmick buid Y. Players have had plenty of time and zero restrictions in order to create the "Y" build and so now no one will take anything else. Sometimes you can take henchie but sometimes you can't. So what on earth does that little mesmer/assassin/ritualist do? Well they can't do too much now can they? They don't fit into build "Y" so they just have to wait and wait and wait and hope that their guild and friends will have some free time the next time they are online.

Quote:

On a different note, and this is the main point I wanted to make, it is the design of the various high-end areas which encourage gimmicky builds. If you consider gimmicks a problem, don't blame it on the fact that various areas are open for all, but instead, blame it on the enemies' builds, the terrain of the missions, the mechanics on which the gimmick runs, and any other factor which can lead to gimmicky builds.

PvE is generally a static environment. We know we are going to face the same foes in the same areas over and over again. This doesn't change just because it is a high level area. Yes, PvE is MADE for gimmick builds, I don't dispute that fact. But what do people need in order to perfect gimmick builds? Time, practice, patience. Why is it that a gimmick build has yet to be found for clearing out the whole of UW? TIME. We can't just keep practising until we get it perfect, favour prevents that.

Restrictions give players something to strive for. Remove those restrictions and two things will happen:
1) the market will be flooded with ecto and shards because now ALL districts can farm at the same time.
2) gimmick builds will exist for doing quests in both areas and if you don't fit into either of those builds you can kiss your FoW armour goodbye because it will be a bun fight to get a team (no one wants to join if you aren't running THE build, and you can't join because your profession isn't needed) to get to the Forge Master.
I also imagine that many districts will be depopulated as the centre of civilisation moves to ToA and no one bothers with quests and missions any more.

You say restriction was always a problem, but I find it ironic that none of you actually started complaining (telling others who were doing so to "DEAL") until your region no longer held favour 9 times out of 10.
I find it interesting that Uw/FoW/elite missions are considered "high level" areas, while many areas with max. enemies are not. Why? We've not had enough access to perfect team builds to conquer the area successfully every single time.

Stockholm · Jul 23, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Where do you find enemies with higer lvl's than UW, Fow or "elit" missions?
A Boss thats lvl28 surrounde by lvl 14-20 can't be compared to the whole mob being lvl 24 or lvl 28. Thats high lvl areas.